http://xfinity.comcast.net/video/shadow-jake-riley-and-norton/698484858/

1:05 into the clip.

Dogs will put up with aversive stimuli in training. That doesn’t mean that aversive stimuli ought to be routinely used in dog training.

As for successful application of training where only non-aversive stimuli are used, one need look no further than falconry. For centuries, mankind has used the same sort of principles that are now formalized in operant conditioning with great success. Would-be falconers who try aversive stimuli are quite likely to soon be bird-less.

My dog was attacked at the dog park yesterday by a dog that I’ve witnessed in a fight with a prior dog and my friend also told me she’s seen this dog attack others. Thankfully my dog only came out of it with some hair and scrape to her side. The fight I witnessed earlier was pretty intense and both dogs were hurt. This owner’s method for discipline for the fighting: the alpha roll and holding her dog down. I was going to provide her with a copy of the fairly recent Science Daily studies that indicate an aggressive owner begets an aggressive dog, as well as the one that says the dominance theory is old hat.

May I also give her a copy of your blog post?

You know, I’m not a dog, and I know it. Do you actually think you are one? All other-animal trainers use food. You don’t see zoo trainers struggling to express some form of “giraffese” when they need the giraffe to hold still to get a blood draw. And by the way, dogs really don’t communicate by touch so much. Most of their communication is by body language, without touching. If you think they have to get to the point of touching to communicate, you’re missing 90% of it and no wonder you have to resort to physical bullying to scare the dog into not resisting!

Regardless, this blog isn’t about you, nor is it about me. It’s about a tragic news story and a warning to our readers to avoid a dangerous technique that (whether you care to admit it or not) is definitely promoted by Cesar Millan. Apparently, you have nothing better to do than hunt out old blogs that you don’t agree with so you can pick the same fight again and again, and you don’t even have the guts to sign your name. I’m done with this conversation and further posts from you will not be approved. I also am not going to get into a debate about Mr. Millan. I’ve said what I wanted to say. If you disagree, feel free to write your own blog proudly proclaiming that Mr. Millan cannot possibly bear any responsibility for the death of the Lab puppy in the news article I wrote about.

Greta Kaplan, CDBC, CPDT-KA
Companion Animal Solutions
Portland, OR

First, I didn’t compare the man who killed his puppy to Cesar Millan. I hypothesized that the man might have gotten the idea from Cesar Millan, and that’s not the same thing. Cesar most certainly does, on occasion, hold dogs in some kind of choking position until their tongues turn blue, and he’s a very popular entertainer. It’s entirely predictable that someone watching the show might get the idea and run with it. Did I say this happened here? Of course not. I don’t know it happened, and you don’t know it didn’t happen, either.

Second, if you’ve seen a dog “alpha roll” another dog, then you saw one of three things: (1) Play, usually by immature or poorly socialized dogs; (2) Aggression that was totally inappropriate and would get a dog or wolf ostracized by its companions; or (3) (most likely), the subordinate animal flipped itself over on its back to demonstrate submission. This is actually very well studied and any competent actual biologist will tell you that there is no animal species whose natural ethogram includes forcibly rolling another individual on its back to show dominance. So whatever you’ve seen, it was not what we’re told by some that an alpha roll is. It was something else.

Regards,

Greta Kaplan, CDBC, CPDT-KA
Companion Animal Solutions

I don’t agree with your other premise, though. Wolves do not use alpha rolls to put another wolf in its place, period. There is, in fact, no animal species that forces another animal onto its back as a method of showing dominance or discipline. If you see a wolf on its back, it rolled itself there as a gesture of submission; a very different action! It is simply a myth, and an unfortunate one, that wolves roll other wolves.

If wolves don’t use this technique with each other, it boggles the mind to think that humans could use it successfully. First, dogs aren’t wolves. Behaviorally, they are very distinct species. Dogs descended from wolves, but the split took place long enough ago in evolutionary time to achieve speciation. If you take a newborn wolf pup and cross-foster it with a Labrador mom, socialize it like a Labrador, and completely and utterly pretend it’s a Labrador… it will still be a wolf, with rigid social rules, a high degree of predation, a long flight distance, and so on. So, applying an (alleged, and false) “wolf technique” to a dog doesn’t make sense. Dogs also do not alpha roll each other to establish discipline and dominance, by the way — again, a dog who ends up on its back during a social interaction has rolled itself that way in a submissive signal.

Finally, WE are not dogs, OR wolves. And they know this! It’s absurd to think we can accurately execute such a dangerous (not to mention mythical) move appropriately to achieve dominance or discipline, especially since it’s a completely foreign notion to the dog or wolf in question.

With respect to the Dog Whisperer, there are a couple of episodes I’ve seen where not only did he use this completely artificial technique, but you can actually see the dog’s tissues losing pink color as anoxia sets in. This takes a fair amount of force to the neck! Again, this is what leads me to conclude that the man referenced in the article had been watching the TV show to learn how to care for his puppy.